Trace: • minutes2014-05-08
@LunaLoof | Martina Pöser
@marou_pp | Maxime Rouquet
@tvelocity | Antonios Motakis
@AndersPirat | Anders Kleppe
@Popol349 | Paul Bossu
(may be busy due to campaigning needs)
@teirdes | Amelia Andersdotter
(will be late and has to go early)
@CristianBulumac | Cristian Bulumac
(bad internet connection, may be late)
@Radeks00 | Radek P.\\(on temporary sick leave)
@Gilles_PPDE | Gilles Bordelais
(ill and exhausted)
macburns.michael john sinclair pp-de /pp-uk /pwb.
@herrbokor Joachim Bokor
@BroeckelndeWand | flow
@lmn_ar [Conferación Pirata - CPES]
Martina is opening the meeting at 21:20 CEST.
Minutes (Secretary): Maxime
Approval of the minutes of the Board meeting before?
Martina has forgotten what she was asked to change… Martina asks if somebody knows what was unclear in these minutes. It is proposed to postpone the approval of the minutes to a next Board meeting (or to wait for somebody contesting the minutes to join the meeting).
Proposal : for consensual votes, we don't ask everybody to vote but mark in the minutes that the point is approved by the Board.
Nobody seems to be against. It will be the procedure for today.
TOP 1 IT Structure
TOP 2 Registering the party
TOP 3 Banking account
TOP 4 Registering of Logo as European Trademark
TOP 5 Communication Strategy
TOP 6 Procedural Rules for the Board
TOP 7 Other Stuff
TOP 8 Next Board Meeting
Martina, Anders and Maxime have worked hard on it and hope that it finds the approval of all Board members now.
Any proposals for a change?
As there are few Board members present apart from the ones who wrote these RoP, it is proposed to postone the approval of these minutes until more Board members are present to talk to it.
It is moved to the end of the agenda before “Other stuff” in the hope that Amelia and Cristian may join us later on.
Gilles is reporting:
PPEU mail server (groupware as an option)
PPEU mailing lists
(PPEU) mumble server
http://ppeu.piratenpad.de (Martina has now admin rights here)
PPEU wiki http://ppeu.net/wiki/doku.php
Gregory has set up a mailing list on the PPI servers for us (and the Delegates and the work group on educational issues) to use until we have our own infrastructure:
http://lists.pp-international.net/listinfo/pp-eu.board (and a private ml that is not listed)
→ Gilles and Martina have admin rights there.
Martina got admin rights for the mumble room PPEU on the German NRW mumble server.
What about the ppeu.coordinators-ml? Shall we try to get it from the Czech pirates who are admins there right now?
:Gregory: if you decide to appoint additional admin, we can do this directly.
Anders would not want to postpone the decision on this point until the EU election campaign is over. Martina shares his . We have mailing-list and pads, at least partial control on the website. But persons in charge are not attending this meeting. Maxime thinks we should follow Gilles' opinion (basically that we have enough structure for short term and we can wait for the rest/long term). Anders warns that more work is needed and we should not postpone it forever.
Due to the low number of Board members present, they are a bit relunctant to take important decisions. Antonios proposes to discuss these things by e-mail.
Summary : we do not have our own server for e-mail, mumble, website. We have control of our pads (on German pads). Should we have admin rights on mailing-lists of PP-EU ? All non delegates of PPEU Members have been expulsed from pp-eu.council ML (including Board members, which could be a problem to work with them).
pirates without borders server is nearly up and ready would it be an idea to share it?.
Gregory offered to give someone admin rights to ppi-servers to be able to have full access to everything.
Martina thinks that is a good offer, and we should think about sharing infrastructure to minimize costs. But it needs to get discussed with Gilles and all other Board members.
We want to push Gilles a bit to do something on this topic.
Decision from the last Board meeting: We delegate to Radek, Paul and Cristian to organise the founding of an ASBL and initiate at the same time the procedures to upgrade it as an AISBL as soon as we will fullfil the requirements. But if they get new information, they have the discretion to change the decision for the better.
Radek, Paul and Cristian report on the progress here:
Did you find a notary? Did you start the registering process as aisbl?
@Paul: How is the translation of the statutes coming?
@Maxime: Is the list of members finished?
Here is a pad of maxime : https://piratenpad.de/w1PjaPWNoI
Maxime : I have contacted the last PPs with on their official contact e-mails, two have answered. We now only miss the information for PP-FI and PP-IS. Do some of us have contact in these Pirate Parties ? PP-IS is the only party with Pirates in the National Parliament and PP-FI is presenting Peter Sunde for EU elections that PPs push for EU Commission presidency, we should be able to contact them.
Martina may have contact with PP-FI. Jens from PP-DE might have some contact about PP-IS. Anders too. It is proposed that Martina and Anders contact the persons they know to fill in the pad before the next Board meeting.
The work with Cristian is here: http://www.titanpad.com/aisbl
This topic is postponed until next Board meeting.
Radek will prepare a list of the interesting options available and of their main differences for the next Board meeting:
Paul explains he don't think we need a bank that is inside the European Parliament as the extraction of money will be limited to some events.
Amelia advises not to use her office as the office registering an account since the outcome of the elections are unclear. She advises to take into account the practical side, and therefore to be careful not to have too much administrative constraints with our future financial operations. She propose to ask the Board to vote between TRIODOS (better on the ethical but not on the practical side) and “any other” bank, to have a first idea of the position of the Board.
Paul explains he is attached to the idea of ethical banking, not TRIODOS in particular. “If there areother ethic bank ineurope and online, i'm also ok … and just to add, there will be bankcard at triodos in 2015.”
Cristian would like to discuss with Radek on the possibility to manage some of PPEU's money in cash at the beginning, provided the accountability of PPEU is well and transparently managed.
Paul: Radek comes each month to Brussels (he said it during last meeting)
Proposal: The subject will be further discussed with Radek to determine in particular what we can or cannot do before we open a bank account.
So, what does Radek say now?
Radek will try to report on this topic by tomorrow evening sending around an email to the Board.
Martina: The German Pirate Party is thinking about registering the PPEU logo as a trademark in Germany and perhaps as a European trademark, too. I asked them to wait until we have reached a decision about the question, if we want to register it as a trademark for PPEU ourselves. The registration as a European trademark is pretty expensive, as it will cost about € 1.200,-.
What do we want to do?
Ask Maxime, they have also managed this in France. They registered Pirate Party logos to stop abuse by people pretending to be Pirates but having position against privacy. Registering the Party Pirate mark appeared as the best way to legally prevent them from using the PP-FR logo on their anti-pirate websites, flyers, etc.
Cristian and Amelia are against registering a trademark because it would be kind of ironic for Pirates to register trademarks.
Martina says that she believes that the German Pirates registered trademarks to have a handle against right wing websites using Pirate signs. The German Pirate party's lawyer seemed to be wanting to register the logo in any case, either for the German Pirates or allowing PPEU to do this instead. But she has to ask him about it. Martina will invite Jochen Bokor (the lawyer hired part-time for the German Pirate Board) to the next meeting to talk about the intentions behind registering it.
Cristian : sometimes trademarks can be a good tool to fight against abusive use of logos. But anyway it is not possible to register PPEU's logo until the PPEU itself is registered.
Proposal : Jochen, member of PP-DE and part-time layer for the Board, who is proposing to register the trademark, will be invited to discuss this in a next Mumble meeting.
So, what do we decide? What does Jochen say?
A problem at the moment is that we have no money and no bank account, which would make it very difficult for us to register a logo anyway.
Martina reminds it could be a problem if the logo is not registered because extreme-right websites could use it and it would be more difficult to make them stop that. Having a registered trademark makes it much easier than using copyright.
The PP-DE proposes to register the trademark in Germany (cost : 490€) which would be less expensive than EU-wide (1200€).
EU wide crowdsourcing save our logo?Ques
Jochen says that transfering a trademark (for example from PP-DE to PPEU) would not be a problem. Registering the PPEU logo would need to register an entirely new logo, as it is too far from PP-DE's logo. Jochen does not know how the PP-DE Board would feel about “pre-registering” the logo, maybe by advancing money today and getting back later.
The Board cannot decide to engage that money tonight.
Anders say we would win a lawsuit without the trademark. Jochen warns that one lawsuit costs might be more expensive than the registration of the trademark, which would make it very unlikely to have any court case afterwards (as we would have very high chances to win anyway).
It is proposed to ask the Council to take the decision on this question. If this decision is taken, the Council should decide during a Council meeting, which would not happen before around two months.
Martina's Proposal: The Board should prepare a basis for the decision of the Council as the Board giving all known arguments in favour or against such a decision and what is the background to all of this. And then the Council shall decide on the issue at its next Council meeting.
Decision of the Board:
Maxime : we should prepare a list of pros/cons registering the trademark. We could propose tonight to nominate one person in charge for both (pros / cons). Then we can give the two lists to the Board, or the Council, to take a decision.
Proposal : Martina and Anders work together on preparing the basis for the decision taking into account legal and economic issues connected with registering a trademark.
Decision of the Board:
A meeting was called by Cristian and held on Mumble on 16th April, with one more planned for 24th April.
The main points were:
- brainstorming communication issues:
New website on europeanpirates.eu, with our colors and specific branding: Cristian spoke with Amelia and her office, work is in progress ⇒ Cash can help
Repository of all campaign materials with sources and copyright: German and Catalan pirate already gave the materials, more info on copyright needed. Work in progress in obtaining the Czech materials.
- kickstarting a scientific process of building a communication strategy
Cristian will write to all PPs members of PPEU asking them to provide a person that guided by Anders (PPEU board member) will provide the answers that will help in having a strategy.
Cristian: I have now access and manager rights on both PPEU pages on FB.
Martina: Here is a prepared website for the European elections: http://piraten-steinfurt.de/u/ppeu/. It just needs to be transfered to the europeanpirates.eu-site. The person to talk to who has prepared this site is Florian Wagner / flow (firstname.lastname@example.org).
What was decided and talked about on the last meeting? Anything new? A concept?
Muriel was suggesting to share administration rights for the website (europeanpirates.eu), as Anders (from Amelia's office) is quite idle and maybe someone, e.g. Cristian, might want to help out.
Proposal: We ask Cristian to tell us about the state of things with the admin rights of the website and the website itself. Antonios is taking charge and can help him on technical side if needed.
See above (before TOP 1)
As there are no more Board members than at the start of the meeting, it is decided to postpone the decision on the Rules of Procedure until the next Board meeting, or a previous vote by e-mail.
Shall we promote it? And how? press release? Website?
Maxime proposes to try to write something on it, if it could be justified by the content of the PPEU manifesto.
From: Joachim Jördens email@example.com;
To: Koordination der Aktivitäten rund um TTIP bei den Piraten (Liste wird archiviert, aber nicht ins Forum synchronisiert) firstname.lastname@example.org;
Subject: [TTIP] Anmeldeschluss für Stakeholder Fr. 9.5.
Sent: Thu, May 8, 2014 11:52:05 AM
hat schon mal jemand daran gedacht, dass sich die Pirate Party of Europe als Stakeholder für die nächste TTIP-Verhandlungsrunde anmelden könnte ?
Uns sind ja von Lutz und Pedro Folgegespräche und Informationen zugesagt worden.
Mehr als ablehnen können sie nicht und eine bessere Chance an etwas bessere inhaltliche Infos zu kommen sehe ich auch nicht.
Ich würde sagen Frechheit siegt, wenn es klappt könnten wir die einzige Partei sein die gelistet ist, ein Vorteil, der uns in Talkrunden bringen könnte.
ich leite hier einmal den Inhalt einer Mail weiter, die auf der NDS Aktiven reinkam.
TTIP steht auf dem Programm. Die SPD Niedersachsen hat wohl einen Landtagsantrag für irgendwas mit “Abschaffung tarifärer und nichttarifärer Hemmnisse” in der Warteschleife? Die CDU irgendwas mit ”[nur] Parlamentariern wöchentlich berichten”?
Heute (/ “Freitag”) läuft die Frist zur Anmeldung als Stakeholder für die nächste TTIP-Verhandlungsrunde aus. Deutschland als nicht eigenständiger Vertragspartner wird sich wahrscheinlich nicht als Stakeholder angemeldet haben, obwohl sich Koalitionsvertreter ja meist gerne selber schwätzen hören. Andere dt. Parteien wahrscheinlich auch nicht.
http://www.ustr.gov/ttip/round-information morgen ist anmeldung frist.
Joachim Jördens, (piratenjoe1)
AG WiFinSt (Wirtschaft, Finanzen, Steuern)
Tel: 05173- 2700, Mobil: 0176-3989 4504
email@example.com, Twitter: @piratenjoe1
what do you all think about this idea,? who would be the person to send?
ttip mailing list
Proposal: Maxime may register in the name of PPEU, if he likes to and Anders will ask PPI, if they want to register someone for the Stakeholder consultation.
Martina: Thinks that it is a good idea and would like to ask Danny to talk to the German Design team about it.
Proposal: Martina tells the German design team that PPEU would be very happy, if they could create a social media campaign for Amelia and Peter Sunde.
Jens (visitor) : Protocoll from the PPEU founding conference in Brussels 21/03/2014, List of delegates is missing, who wrote this crap?
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2014 20:32:12 +0100
I've just become aware (thanks to @glynmoody's tweets) about a new(ish) treaty - the Trade in Services Agreement - that is currently being negotiated by WTO members outside of the WTO infrastructure.
So far, countries involved in negotiations are: Australia, Canada, Chile, Chinese Taipei, Colombia, Costa Rica, European Union (representing its 28 Member States), Hong Kong, Iceland, Israel, Japan, Liechtenstein, Mexico, New Zealand, Norway, Pakistan, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Republic of Korea, Switzerland,, Turkey and the United States.
There is an EU document that lists areas that may be included:
> Such proposals are expected to be made in the area of domestic regulation (e.g. authorisation and licensing procedures), international maritime transport services, Information and Communication Technology (?ICT?) services (including cross-border data transfers), e-commerce, computer related services, postal and courier services, financial services, temporary movement of natural persons, government procurement of services, export subsidies and state-owned enterprises. This list is neither an exhaustive list, nor does it mean that it was agreed that in all those sectors there will be new and enhanced disciplines.
References to “liberalisation” earlier in the document and “cross-border data transfers” there have me particularly worried given the EU member states' reluctance to pass the GDPR despite strong Parliamentary support.
According to the Australian Government's website on TiSA, the next round of negotiations will start *tomorrow* (28th April) and last until Friday (2nd May), taking place in Geneva. They also state that at the last meeting (in February)
> [The TiSA parties] agreed to move from proposals to negotiating texts for all of these disciplines.
We should get some very strong wording out ASAFP demanding that this negotiation is fully open and transparent at the very least, and demanding that the TiSA parties release the working texts at the end of every round. If they don't (and I suspect they won't), it's yet another stick we have to beat the opposition around the head with in the EP elections [as if we needed any more ;)].
Also, apparently there is a public meeting being held on Wednesday at The Varembé Conference Centre (CCV), Room A, 17 rue de Varembé, 1211 Geneva 20 between 18:30 and 21:00 - if any French or Swiss Pirates who live near are able to go along, ask annoying questions and report back that would be amazing.
Martina: need to find points in the manifesto to relay a political statement, same procedure as TTIP, see above line 265
Dudle/Doodle to determine the next board meeting time, a few days after the EU elections. Martina will set it up for the dates 27th-30th of May 2014.
The Board will convene again on the XX/XX/2014 at 21.00 CEST on the German NRW Mumble server in room PPEU.
Martina closes the meeting at 23:44 CEST on the 08/05/2014.